(no subject)

[sketchydave.livejournal.com]

I'm looking for some advice from fellow techs. Advice, not support, I swear. More below the cut...


So I just fixed a family friend's computer for the last time. Not because I'm refusing to help anymore or that I just cut off their fingers with pruning shears. The computer is just in a death spiral and I've convinced them to upgrade if it flakes out again.

I'm thinking of talking them into a Mac Mini. They use AOL and little else, yet can't seem to stop clicking on the things on the web that they shouldn't be clicking on. For them the switch to XP would be just as confusing to the Mac OS. So why not get the machine that won't fill up with viruses and spyware?

Anyone have any past negative issues with a novice user (family friend, I won't call them lusers) going from PC to Mac?

Comments

[jjjiii]

What will they do with the inevitable IE-only websites?

[110billion.livejournal.com]

IE still exists for Mac.
Sure, it's ridiculously outdated, but it works for some stuff which Safari/Netscape/Opera/Mozilla can't handle properly.

[tjernobyl.livejournal.com]

I've gone two years without using any IE-only sites. I'm sure with proper encouragement (you don't want to go to thaaaaaaat site, they're eeeeevil) they could be convinced away from them.

[110billion.livejournal.com]

The only IE-loving website I've found is remotemail to my work's exchange server. Oh... and the web config to my old modem. Grrrr.

[tjernobyl.livejournal.com]

The only one that hassles me is Lotus Notes webmail. Then again, considering how halfass the rest of the product is, I'm not surprised...

[110billion.livejournal.com]

Never had to support or use it at work, thank goodness.

[soberloki.livejournal.com]

Firefox handles everything IE does, with the notable exception of every single MSN website.

No real loss, actually.

[taleya.livejournal.com]

and modem firmware interfaces.

Dlink especially.

Bastards.

[110billion.livejournal.com]

Agreed. 302G = modem of dh00m, with IE-only interface!
I will stab them in the eye with many a spork.

[sean-langley.livejournal.com]

And apparently the Harmony Remote site.

[jahbulon.livejournal.com]

I think that Firefox handles a lot of things, but I wouldn't say it handles "everything IE does".

[110billion.livejournal.com]

Firefox still can't handle 100% flash pages, and PDFs, but that's because those two are the spawn of the devil.
Anyone who can't go Right-Click - Save As for a PDF deserves to be shot.

[sketchydave.livejournal.com]

I'm curious as to how AOL for the Mac handles those sites. I might have to load it onto the Mac at work to see what it does.

Personally, if the site is IE-only I try to avoid it like the plague. Unfortunatley that isn't possible...ever where I work. You should see the errors that firefox gets on our company site. It drives me absolutley crazy, they don't bother to check the site against alternate browsers and OS's.

I'm stopping now...if I don't I never will.

[jjjiii]

It seems like a lot of banking, medical benefits administration, and similarly vital web sites are coded to work only with IE, at least in my experience. It's really, really annoying and bad that this is so, and I hope it won't be forever, but when it's something like that, it's a lot harder to tell someone "Yeah, you really don't want to look at your 401(k) online anyway."

[sketchydave.livejournal.com]

My biggest problem with IE is the fact that it runs broken code or you yourself have to break your code for it to work right. It absolutely kills me. I do a lot of design using CSS background images and nested divs. The other day I was having a layout problem and I could not figure it out. Firefox it was fine, as was Safari, Opera, etc. But it didn't work right in IE.

IE was not recognizing one of the nested div, it was terminating early. The code is right, the code works right for everything else. But I had to go and screw up the good structure for it to work right. The result was it worked in IE and I had a 1 pixel gap in all other browsers.

I can live with 1 pixel. But it exists soley because the browser sucks and 87% of the planet uses it. So I have to cater to a busted browser.

[jjjiii]

I feel your pain.

It's sad that everyone caters to the broken one simply because of audience size; if IE were shown to the world to be as flawed as web developers know it to be, there'd be a mass exodus in a heartbeat, and MS's tyranny of port 80 internet traffic would be crushed.

If it were up to me, I'd have a redirect whenever I detected someone was viewing my site in IE that advised them in a header banner of some kind that the page would not work properly and that they ought to go download Firefox or Opera.

[knittinggoddess.livejournal.com]

I have indeed run into a website which is faster for IE than for Firefox or Safari, but using Safari to spoof IE works just fine. (It is probably more complicated than any novice Mac user would feel comfortable doing, though.) But the worry is negligible.

[jjjiii]

I'm talking about sites that flat-out do not work, period, unless you use IE, due to some kind of ActiveX control that it relies on for some critical function.

[mtlchick.livejournal.com]

The only issue I could see is if they call other places for support. The thing that makes me cringe the most is the novice MAC user because we have less of an idea and they have none (and I'm pretty sure this would be similar for most tech support centers).
That said, as long as they're the kind of people who can accept help and follow directions, they should be fine. If they don't listen and won't learn, I'd stick with Windows as it's easier for others to support.
*my two cents*

if they call other places for support

[irishmasms.livejournal.com]

that is when I would suggest the Mac User's Group (MUG) and mac.meetup.com

Introduce them to other newb users their same age range, and reap the dividends.

Re: if they call other places for support

[sketchydave.livejournal.com]

Good to know. I also saw that the Apple Store does free one hour workshops throughout the week on how to use the Mac. Wicked good idea if you ask me. Get some novice users, get their feet wet, and showcase all the Apple toys.

Re: if they call other places for support

[irishmasms.livejournal.com]

Any of the local MUGs I have been associated with in the past are usually the newb crowd. All the real experienced Mac folk join the local Linux user's group! ;)

The one MUG drawback - annual membership fee. :(

[110billion.livejournal.com]

Most insanely thick Mac users are using OS 8/9, which thank -goodness- are beginning to be wiped off the face of the planet.
They're like the Windows 3.1 or 95 of Mac.

[mtlchick.livejournal.com]

I have to say, I kind of prefer the OS 8/9 but only because the t/s is usally "Trash the preferences and reboot." :P

[110billion.livejournal.com]

haahaha.
fucking desktop rebuild
"now, hold down the apple and options keys" or whatever the fuck it was

[japester.livejournal.com]

guess what?
you can still do that.
just gotta find 'em now.

[110billion.livejournal.com]

Usually it gets to the point of "unsupported, go speak to Apple" *hang up*

[sketchydave.livejournal.com]

The sad thing is it will get worse (for them) in the years to come when they switch to Intel chips. They should get most, if not all, of the OS X programs to transition over, but you can forget about OS 8/9. And thanksfully so.

[110billion.livejournal.com]

And the techs danced in the street. :)

[sketchydave.livejournal.com]

They are rather good about directions. They are very aware that they don't know much about the computer. Besides, I'm their tech support, they have only called tech support a handful of times for password-type issues.

My thinking is I will introduce them to the Mac and see how they like it. But before the introduction I wanted to see if it would even be a good idea.

::puts on "Moderator" Space Helmet::

[jecook]

I see no problems here.

I'll warn you. you'll be likely to have to support the mac as well...

I think I _finally_ got Mother to know how to use hers...

Re: ::puts on "Moderator" Space Helmet::

[110billion.livejournal.com]

haha. I won't even let my mother near my mac.
She'd blow it up :\

Re: ::puts on "Moderator" Space Helmet::

[sketchydave.livejournal.com]

The nice thing is I actually enjoy supporting Macs now ever since they switched to a *nix base. The only problem is when they really screw something up, but even thats fun because its a challenge.

You know, we really should get you a "Moderator Space Helmet" icon for these kinds of posts :-) I know I'm a tad bit off topic and am pleasantly surprised that I didn't get flamed at all! Well nothing yet anyway, the day is still young.

Re: ::puts on "Moderator" Space Helmet::

[jecook]

You mean this one? ::snicker::

Re: ::puts on "Moderator" Space Helmet::

[sketchydave.livejournal.com]

LOL Perfect!

Re: ::puts on "Moderator" Space Helmet::

[110billion.livejournal.com]

Best helmet ever. :)

[geekgrrl-ca.livejournal.com]

Make sure you have them spend the extra bucks for extended support from Apple. Apple will help them install things that Apple doesn't make or sell (mind you that's not always a good thing).

MAC

[(Anonymous)]

Yep- Mac User Groups have become almost all Newbs *Sniff
*At one time you could hardly wait to get that Disk of the month! (800K) and meet up with ALL the Mac geeks around!

Oh for the days of First Class BBS - ing being the hottest thang going.

Oh Yes .......Back to topic
Get them to a Mac!...unless they actually pay you to help them ,-)

Safari and Firefox should cover most sites...

GeekyNurse in SFBay Area

[ianwalker.livejournal.com]

As someone who switched from Windows to Mac full-time a couple of years ago (for about 3 years I was using both often enough at work and in classes) I can say that it shouldn't be that big of a problem for them to learn.

As people have said, it is true that there are sites out there that DEMAND Windows IE. Ask them what websites they positively NEED to work, and try them on a Mac. I only have a handful that I need to use from time to time (FAFSA for one, some internal ones at the University I attend/work for) that I can't get to work on one if not several Mac browsers.

But if they're using dial-up (which I've not used, but I'm told is easy in OSX) and just surfing the web, they should be more than happy with a Mac.

Most problems that a user of that level might run into can be solved by:

Repairing permissions (in the Disk Utility app)

Trashing preference files located in one of two places

On rare occasions re-installing the app

Honestly, I do a lot more than most users (assistant to our admin in our computer labs, media production including audio, video, web, and graphics) and that solves 90% of MY software problems on my Macs.

And the built-in firewall is pretty good, for when and if the day comes that someone develops a virus or two for Mac OSX...