Tech Support HELL

Could be wrong, think the ipod touch and iphone use onboard memory (solid state storage), not hard drives.

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I think you're right, but I was considering a flash drive to be equivalent to a disk rather than RAM, if you see what I mean.
I've been asked the "have I got enough memory to store all my photos" question before...

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get the users even more confused with vista's readyboost technology that way. "It's memory.. but it's a flash disk.. but it's memory"

I can see the heads spin

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Yes (http://www.apple.com/ipodtouch/specs.html), you'd be right.

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That's still separate from RAM and CPU (http://furbo.org/2007/08/21/what-the-iphone-specs-dont-tell-you/), though.

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And we're concerned with RAM and clock-speeds, why? It's a freaking media player, not a power-gamer's dream machine!

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I am only "concerned" about the user confusion.

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I still fail to see the point of linking me to a hack to find out the RAM and CPU speed on an iPhone, then. I've yet to see someone concerned with the CPU in a PMP. Mistakenly referring to a PMP device's storage as RAM, maybe, but i can't even say they've for sure done that in front of me.

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I still fail to see the point of linking me to a hack...

To attempt to indicate more clearly what I was going on about.

I've yet to see someone concerned with the CPU in a PMP.

I have not seen such a thing either.
But - the advertisement clearly states "memory" as meaning "amount of data that can be stored on the device", which is a common mistake made by users. Unfortunately, they will probably not think that there is any difference between such devices and their computers and will think that "memory" is the same on both. Apple could have said that people want "more songs" or "more space".

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ptomblin-lj.livejournal.com

Unfortunately PDAs and iPods have been blurring that distinction for at least a decade. Most PDAs have flash memory that works as both the program execution area and the long term storage. And iPods come in both hard drive and flash versions, and so they tend to blur the distinction as well - especially as a few years ago the 20Gb iPod had a hard drive and now the 16Gb iPod has flash memory.

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w8tvi.livejournal.com

The current batch of windows mobile PDA phone now have separate flash (storage) memory and system RAM.

I'm sure with Sony calling their removable flash cards memorystick didn't help matters much. Half the people coming into my work asking for flash cards for their phone and cameras ask a memory stick, even if they don't have a Sony.

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The usage of the term "memory" has been something that tends to vex all of us, even the end users that can't figure out when it's proper and when it isn't.

The fact that users use "memory" interchangeably for both RAM and storage has, unfortunately, led to a bit of a breakdown in terms of even some technical-minded folks using the term for both purposes.

As a sidenote, for a while it has seemed to me that there should be an easier to remember designation between RAM and storage. Something that parallels the human mind, for example teaching people that RAM is short-term memory, used to help your thoughts move along quicker, and storage is long-term memory, which is used for recalling childhood memories and the like. But, those terms, even if broken into TLA's (STM, LTM) don't quite roll off the tongue, and we'd be stuck with "memory" all over again. Nevermind.

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I used to use the mind and a filing cabinet

RAM is your active mind. It's where your thoughts go, it's got limited space, but if you can remember something off the top of your head it's easier than looking it up and a heck of a lot easier to manipulate than writing down, erasing, writing down, erasing
.
Hard Drive is like a file cabinet. You can store everything there, and read it to put it into your memory. It takes a while, but you can store a lot more information in there in a lot more detail than you can in your mind.

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kenbrody.livejournal.com

And, if I were to power you down, the contents of your RAM would be lost, while the file cabinet information would still remain.

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LOL. that's very true. I never thought about it. I'll have to add it :)

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rorted.livejournal.com

users asking for "more memory" in their machines when they mean "a bigger disk"

Exactly, they mean "more memory". A hard disk is non-volatile memory (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-volatile).

Sure in colloquial techie use memory is a synonym for RAM, but in other contexts (like computer science) it covers both forms. Users don't need to understand this dichotomy. Let's face it, if all users spoke tech many of us would be without jobs.

If they want to call non-volatile storage memory - and the VP of iPod marketing says they do - I say let them call it memory.

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If they want to call non-volatile storage memory - and the VP of iPod marketing says they do - I say let them call it memory.

Of course they may call it whatever they please — my point merely that I don't like it.
There are certain words (e.g. "decimate", "theory" and "hacker" &c.) that have specific meanings amongst certain specialist groups but are considered to mean something quite different by the layman, and these can be a considerable irritation to the specialist. We've got no hope of changing everyone else's meaning and so just have to put up with it, but that does not stop the complaints.

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rorted.livejournal.com

No, your point was that users' definition of the word "memory" is wrong, that they're confused, and that Apple is partly to blame for this confusion. Not so.

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