Interesting News
Dec. 9th, 2003 04:33 pm![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
liquidmercurial.livejournal.com posting in ![[community profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/community.png){kind=small}
techrecoveryYou know about Dell retracting it's support in India... Well how about this new idea? I think it's an awesome idea that should become standard.... You decide:
U.S. Programmers at Overseas Salaries
U.S. Programmers at Overseas Salaries
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Date: 2003-12-09 03:44 pm (UTC)I hate the idea that all of our jobs are going overseas. I hate capitalism too.
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Date: 2003-12-09 04:08 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2003-12-09 05:28 pm (UTC)I agree, it sucks to come down off the $80-90k/yr salaries programmers were making, but a cut in half beats the hell out of a 100% cut. Besides, it's all about being competitive. If the Indians are willing to do it for half of what American programmers will, the American programmers should expect to either lose their jobs or take a cut.
Yeah, the "standard of living" in this country may decrease, but economic pressures work both ways. If the $90k/yr jobs are cut to $50k and lower, people will only pay $50k/yr or lower prices, forcing either a price reduction or going out of business. Much like the choices the programmers themselves faced.
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Date: 2003-12-09 05:42 pm (UTC)Dell hired me through an outsourcing company, I made it halfway through my training course, and my class was told we were being suspended until further notice.
I'm not mad, I'm not bitter, etc. I want to go back to work. Dell's a good company to work under contract for. It just kinda stinks that they didn't get the call volume they were expecting, and take it out on the people they just hired, and hadn't made it out of Dell training yet.
They told us they'll call us when they're ready for us to come back, but they gave no guarantees, let alone an idea of how long it would take. Confidentially, my trainer told me it'd be as soon as 3-4 days or as long as 3-4 weeks, and I appreciate her telling me that, but until then, I may have to go back to my old job *shudder*
Limitations and quality will restore equilibrium
Date: 2003-12-09 06:43 pm (UTC)In trying to get an objective picture on outsourcing a couple months ago, I read a lot of first-hand accounts from businesses that have outsourced programming. The negative stories far outnumbered the positives. Negative stories fell into two camps: difficulties due to distance/timezones (a number of businesses were satisfied with the quality of work, but had to dump the outsourcing due to just not being able to communicate often/well enough to meet the project needs), and sheer horror stories (some of which are truly amazing).
What is clear is that quality varies wildly. Some complaints were even dealing with CMM Level 5 operations. Regardless of who wrote the code, though, most bad experiences required clean-up from domestic programmers. The really bad ones delayed projects and raped budgets. Post-development maintenance was almost always a problem. Getting the initial "final product" is one thing, but maintaining it in a timely manner has proven difficult for many.
A lot of managers said "never again". And that's something that will happen more and more. A lot of companies are going to be interested until they get burned, or until enough of their business colleagues complain about getting burned.
Not everyone is going to get burned. India isn't just a pit of bad code. There is some high quality there. But after a while, the quality will be all that's left, as these firms build reputations here in the US, and the non-reputable ones will no longer receive work. Outsourcing won't go away, but the massive availability of outsourcing will drop, as companies start to learn the ramifications of using "just anyone". As in everything business, it's all about economics and bottom line. Bean counters don't understand engineering, and it's only when bad engineering costs them money that they will step back and reconsider.
Meanwhile, we'll see something like this article, but less dramatic. Instead of $80k being reduced to $45k, we'll see something like $60k. To bean counters suddenly gun-shy from bad experiences (or hearing about bad experiences), paying $60k for a safer solution won't sound so bad anymore.
It doesn't happen overnight, but the market WILL adjust itself. This outsourcing thing is really the same kind of house of cards that the dotcom trend was. Everyone was SO convinced it was THE way to be, after seeing select success here and there. That looks so deluded now. So too will mass outsourcing of programming. When the house of cards falls, some will remain standing, but many will fall.
Well....
Date: 2003-12-09 06:44 pm (UTC)From an employee perspective, I would be PRETTY PISSED if my salary took a major fall because my manager decided to pay me "overseas salary". Now, while I doubt management would suddenly change my salary, the possibility remains for me to be "downsized" (to make room for people who will work at these, "overseas salaries"), and be unable to find a job as a programmer elsewhere at the salary level I once had.
Again, Cost Management, good idea. Employee, bad idea.
_MaH
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Date: 2003-12-10 08:35 am (UTC)