ext_25097 ([identity profile] demented-pants.livejournal.com) wrote in [community profile] techrecovery2009-04-15 06:19 am

This has been driving me NUTS lately.

Am I the only one noticing a trend lately wherein people everywhere seem to be going, "Oh, windows is so insecure and awful, I'll switch to Macs, they're better," without having a damn clue what they're talking about? When pressed, sure, they might say, "Macs don't get viruses," which is (of course) a fallacy, or, "Windows crashes all the time..."

Regardless, they switch to macs and then they're totally illiterate and I have to help them figure out wtf they're doing. And then when everything doesn't JUST WORK ZOMG like they're expecting it to, it's somehow *still* Windows' fault, somehow.

Ugh. I'm not advocating for one above the other. I use Mac, Windows, and Linux all three, though I have a definite preference for Windows, personally. Use what works for you.

But for fuck's sake can we all have a little bit less of that annoying superiority?

[identity profile] cheezemeister-x.livejournal.com 2009-04-15 11:42 am (UTC)(link)
This is not a new trend; it's been happening since Windows was born.

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[identity profile] sgt-easton.livejournal.com 2009-04-15 02:52 pm (UTC)(link)
Image (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v11/skapunkdrums/?action=view&current=iProduct.gif)

[identity profile] preserver3.livejournal.com 2009-04-15 12:13 pm (UTC)(link)
Preferences hinge on what you know. If you're a power Linux user and you think the mouse is a waste of time, you probably love Linux and despise Mac and Windows.

If you don't understand the finer points of Linux or your last interaction with linux required two separate compiles which brought you to the LILO prompt, then you may hate Linux and think that the happy music from Vista or XP adds something to the "experience".

If you ever had to deal with removing an uber infection from a laptop without formatting the machine... You may despise Windows with all of your might and all of your soul.

If you're a Java applet developer, and you care about what your app looks like you may love Mac and Windows and wonder what that blocky text on Windows is all about.

If you suffer from attention deficit disorder, but are highly functional and need to in the same day, edit video, scrub audio, re-size a pic, format said pic in four different formats, have a video chat with your friend in Germany, deploy a flash app, and grep through three thousand text files for the words "Zerg Rush", then you may be so insipidly a Mac user that you haven't even gotten to this portion of my response.

If you think Excel is the only spreadsheet program, you may be a Windows user.

If you don't know what Excel or spreadsheet programs are, but know how to check your email, you are a Windows user.

If you currently have a piece of tape over your built in camera, you are a Mac user... and a smart one at that.

If you compile modifications to your own Kernel, you are a Linux user, and though I may like you for the work you do, I secretly hate you because you're too much like me.

If you had to fix a computer this morning because it was both WoW patch night and Windows gave out some questionable updates last night, you're upset that all world servers are down now for emergency maintenance as of 4:00 PDT. Oh and you probably think you need to go and figure out how to run Linux with all of the patches on your Ubuntu box again.


There are a lot of layers to all of this, but I'm a linux user who uses Windows and Macs because I can. You're probably a Windows user who uses Linux and Macs because you can and the current market forces you to remain in this job until further notice... or you're sticking with the devil you know.

You're right, people who switch to Macs because they haven't learned the basics of computing and now expect things to be easier are nutjobs who should be in a sausage factory becoming soylent green, but the likes and dislikes are based on experiences.

[identity profile] jahbulon.livejournal.com 2009-04-15 12:25 pm (UTC)(link)
If you don't know what Excel or spreadsheet programs are, but know how to check your email, you are a Windows user.

Or a Mac user.

[identity profile] agentdanak.livejournal.com 2009-04-15 03:13 pm (UTC)(link)
so, not a mac user (but can sort of remember how to use a mac), so i don't know why the camera should be taped over...

explain?

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[identity profile] simoncion.livejournal.com 2009-04-15 05:07 pm (UTC)(link)
...your last interaction with linux required two separate compiles which brought you to the LILO prompt...
^^^ There's the issue. LILO sucks, hard-core. They should be using GRUB wherever possible! :D

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[identity profile] tanetris.livejournal.com 2009-04-15 09:18 pm (UTC)(link)
your last interaction with linux required two separate compiles which brought you to the LILO prompt

*raises hand* Oddly the experience never made me hate Linux, only myself for not being good enough for it.

Of course, then I gave it a few years and now I am happily computing from an Ubuntu PC. I'm totally good enough for Ubuntu. ;)

[identity profile] poly-scott.livejournal.com 2009-04-15 12:23 pm (UTC)(link)
In fact, Windows is a giant steaming pile of insecure crap. Sorry - I didn't make it that way. Just stating the facts.

Mac OS X is based on FreeBSD 4.x, a VERY secure OS. It has a security model that Windows will never hope to match. While all platforms (Linux included) are vulnerable to attack, it's about a thousand times easier to attack a Windows box than anything else. Why? Because security on Windows is a joke.

I am not a Mac user.

Windows has it's place - it can always serve as the bad example.

[identity profile] superbus.livejournal.com 2009-04-15 03:25 pm (UTC)(link)
Then please explain how OS/X and by extension Safari are routinely picked apart within seconds when it comes to gaining control of the systems; explain the quotes from the last couple winners of Pwn2Own, among others.

Apple's security is through obscurity.

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[identity profile] shifuimam.livejournal.com 2009-04-15 09:51 pm (UTC)(link)
...security on Windows is a joke.

Really? I mean, really?

I'm running XP Pro SP2 at work with no AV software, because we only have a license for McAfee, which is a resource hog. I have yet to have any problems. I run Vista Ultimate and XP Pro SP2 at home behind a normal WRT54G with DD-WRT, and don't have AV on any of them. Boyfriend runs a gaming server with XP Pro x64 and no AV. None of our machines have any problems.

Windows is not what it used to be. Being a responsible computer user will take care of 99% of problems out there.

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[identity profile] adamjaskie.livejournal.com 2009-04-15 12:25 pm (UTC)(link)
A lot of people who switched to Mac in the past 10 years or so came from Windows 98 or ME. So they have a few valid points. Windows has improved a lot lately, but not everyone gets a new computer every other year. My parents replaced their PIII 450 running 98SE about two years ago. Their iMac has resulted in FAR fewer calls to me asking me how to fix something or how to do something.

"Macs don't get viruses" isn't a fallacy. They don't. Sure, it's theoretically possible, but the fact is there just aren't as many viruses in the wild for the Mac. Like, by orders of magnitude. Now, you may say "well, that's because Windows is more popular", and you'd be right, but AS OF NOW, it's completely valid. Claiming it's a fallacy because it's possible for them to get a virus is like saying it's a fallacy that I live in a safe neighborhood, because I don't lock my door and anyone could just walk in and rob my house.

[identity profile] xforge.livejournal.com 2009-04-15 03:13 pm (UTC)(link)
This. The fallacy would be to say "Macs *can't* get viruses." To date, zero - *zero* - viable exploits have appeared in the field. You can say "well, market share" until you're blue in the face, but look, we're all techies here; do you seriously think the glory of being The Guy Who Wrote The First Real Mac Virus isn't attractive to the hackers out there? Are you seriously implying virus-writers are all just a bunch of lazy maroons? I don't think this is the case.

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[identity profile] poly-scott.livejournal.com 2009-04-15 08:11 pm (UTC)(link)
To play devil's advocate for a moment here, remember that there is a HUGE difference between OS X, and the applications people load ON it.

I have no doubt that Microsoft products, if loaded on a Mac, are just as bug ridden and poorly written as they are on their own OS. As such, those _applications_ are likely at huge risk.

The same can also be true of Linux and Unix. Sendmail once was vulnerable to one of the largest (at that time) worms to ever crawl the net...
ext_3178: a penguin (geek - geeky penguin)

[identity profile] penguin-attie.livejournal.com 2009-04-15 12:59 pm (UTC)(link)
Well, you have to justify the insane amounts of money spent somehow. I freely admit to my unhealthy emotional attachment to my computer (I'd rather leave my boyfriend than my mac!), but I guess that's not for everyone. So they turn to superiority to avoid feeling stupid for spending so much, especially if the initial excitement of new&shiny has worn off and reality is just setting in. (As great as macs are, they cannot fix the stupid either.)

It's a marketing ploy.

[identity profile] emt-hawk.livejournal.com 2009-04-15 01:03 pm (UTC)(link)
Everybody wants to feel like they're special.

Mac's marketers realized they could appeal to people by making them feel "smarter" for buying a Mac. It's the same reason people buy the low-end Mercedes. They think they look more impressive, because of the brand name.

Of course, there was that old commercial from Mac which had a chicken pecking at the mouse, and the tag line "So simple, a chicken can use it."

--EMT Hawk
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[identity profile] shifuimam.livejournal.com 2009-04-15 09:57 pm (UTC)(link)
Mmm...I'm tired of the hate on Vista and Office '07.

I openly hated both.

Then I installed them.

I love Vista. I haven't had a single crash or BSOD since I installed it. The only reason I haven't upgraded my workstation at work is because my secondary video card is too old to have stable Vista drivers, and I'm not giving up my four-LCD setup.

So far, the only problem I have with Vista is getting some of my older hardware to play nice. My MX700 mouse doesn't work in Vista correctly, so I'm currently hunting down an MX900 to replace it. Other than that, Vista is freaking awesome.

People have only hated on it because it's become the normal/cool/funny thing to do. I'm pretty sure that most people who hate it haven't touched it for more than a 30-second trial in a Best Buy or Fry's.

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[identity profile] kyidyl.livejournal.com 2009-04-15 02:39 pm (UTC)(link)
I use a mac because I got tired of spending 7-8 hours a day fixing stuff, then coming home and fixing my computer. I got tired of years of issues w/ windows, so I bought a mac. It was fun learning to use a new OS. To me, it's more intuitive then windows. I've had like...one software problem (literally, the sound stopped working...took about 5 mins of googling to get the fix.) the whole time I've owned it. And after 2.5 years of running all the time and being hot enough to (literally, it's a 1st gen MBP) burn, the motherboard died. That's it. No routinely reinstalling because frikking thing won't boot, no litany of broken hardware (I swear to god, I have an anti-hardware aura around me. It's uncanny. I have broken hardware that isn't even mine before I've even used it or touched it.), no uncomfortable patching experiences, no spyware, no viruses. In more then three years.

But I agree. There are stupid users everywhere. I would venture to guess there are more stupid mac users because of the marketing then there are stupid PC users...well, by % of userbase anyway. Sorry they're using you as a living how-to manual. :/

[identity profile] russianswinga.livejournal.com 2009-04-15 05:15 pm (UTC)(link)
Fire up Fan Control, a free application that lets you adjust your mac laptop's fan speed / temperature curves. Apple leaves them under-cooled to make sure you don't hear the annoying fan sound, which results in more than a few burned mobos. That's like BMW refusing to turn on the radiator fans in 110 degree heat just so the car stays quieter - it just won't work.

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[identity profile] xforge.livejournal.com 2009-04-15 02:56 pm (UTC)(link)
1) All OSes suck

2) That having been said, our support staff for the Windows machines = 78 people; our support staff for the Macs = me, and I spend 7/8ths of my time helping the Windows people, and probably would spend less on the Macs if (a) the sysadmins weren't so Mac-hostile and (b) the Mac users weren't such a bunch of f*cking WHINERS. Which brings us back to your point - an idiot is an idiot is an idiot, no matter what OS is running on their computer.

[identity profile] mashiroikaze.livejournal.com 2009-04-16 01:34 am (UTC)(link)
*golf clap*

Nicely said.

[identity profile] patgund.livejournal.com 2009-04-15 03:21 pm (UTC)(link)
I'm an Apple-certified repair tech and system administrator. While Macs are my preference, I also use Windows and Ubuntu.

All OS's have their idiots. And all OS's have their sheeple who know just enough about their system to really screw things up.

The ones I can't stand are those people who have such an allergy to any other platform that they absolutely refuse to use them. I've dealt with Apple users who wouldn't touch a Windows machine if their life depended on it. And right now I have a teacher who's dislike for Macintoshes is so great that she blames EVERYTHING that goes wrong on her Dell laptop on the fact she's working in a school that is 99% Apple. Even when she's at home and working on something that has nothing to do with school, she seems to think the Apples have contaminated her laptop by sheer presence alone.

[identity profile] slayne-souls.livejournal.com 2009-04-15 04:01 pm (UTC)(link)
Macs dont get viruses?
Well, sure they can if your stupid enough to find them, seeing OSX is a FreeBSD hybrid the chances of reciving a virus are slim, As I am partial To linux which there are only about 50 or so known Viruses,again next to impossible to get, I imagine its similar with Macs.
So for the most part Macs don't get Viruses. Windows itself however is a virus:

* Viruses replicate quickly - okay, Windows does that.

* Viruses use up valuable system resources, slowing down the system as they do so - okay, Windows does that.

* Viruses will, from time to time, trash your hard disk - okay, Windows does that too.

* Viruses are usually carried, unknown to the user, along with valuable programs and systems. Sigh... Windows does that, too.

* Viruses will occasionally make the user suspect their system is too slow (see 2) and the user will buy new hardware. Yup, that's with Windows, too.

Unfortunately I don't have a mac myself if i did I wouldnt be using windows at all as my windows Partition is only used for media editing.
I am not a fan of Cinelerra, Kino or Lives.

[identity profile] simoncion.livejournal.com 2009-04-15 05:11 pm (UTC)(link)
* Viruses replicate quickly - okay, Windows does that.

Please don't do this. It's a really dumb gag.
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[identity profile] shifuimam.livejournal.com 2009-04-15 09:59 pm (UTC)(link)
That's because it's nearly always the user's fault.

The only virus I ever got was Blaster, and I got it through my connection to my university via their modem pool. My machine wasn't patched yet because I didn't use it much, and I was on dial-up all summer and therefore rarely updated Windows. Which was my own fault.

People get viruses because they're morons who refuse to learn how to use a computer responsibly.

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[identity profile] superbus.livejournal.com 2009-04-15 05:22 pm (UTC)(link)
This is all overrated malarky to me.

Each operating system has their own advantages and disadvantages. It all depends on what a person likes or dislikes personally.

Me, for instance, I prefer Linux because I can do whatever the damn well I please on it, and because I'm more comfortable with my OS of choice (OpenSuSE) than Windows. That said, I use Windows for gaming.

My girlfriend, on the other hand, really likes Macs. That's fine, though I make sure she's running ClamAV if she's going to use a Mac. I don't like Macs personally - except for casual use - because I don't like Apple, the fact that you have to have other Apple hardware to get the most out of your OS, and the high cost of entry compared to similarly specced PCs. That said, I don't begrudge Mac users their preferences; to do so would be silly, and just exposes this fanboy culture we have nowadays.

I don't understand the lengths people go to to defend massive, faceless corporations that would have them gassed if their stock prices would improve significantly enough.

[identity profile] shifuimam.livejournal.com 2009-04-15 10:01 pm (UTC)(link)
I dislike Apple for the same reasons...that and I think that Steve Jobs is a complete twat. I also dislike Apple because their fanbase is so blindly apologetic for everything Apple does. It's like their users believe they're somehow not like every other corporation in the United States.

I use Macs. I own several and consider myself a pretty advanced OS X pro. However, I really hate using Macs. They're annoying, unintuitive, and I generally find Windows easier to use.

I do dislike Mac users, but only because most of them are indiefucks who think their image is somehow enhanced by shiny aluminum shit plastered with Apple logos. I've rarely met a Mac user whose inherent personality didn't grate on me.